NEA Seatbelt Article

(9/22/99)

As many you have probably heard, the

National Transportation Safety Board has issued a major report on school bus safety.

According to this morning's New York Times story "Adding seat belts to school buses will cause additional head injuries and probably additional deaths in some crashes, the National Transportation Safety Board said on Tuesday, and instead it recommended better padding to protect the students."

Go here to read Laidlaw's take on seatbelts.

Subject: seatbelts...(1/19/02)

Subject: seat belts

The following opinions are that of myself, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Attica, NY school district, Laidlaw Educational Services, Freightliner, or Thomas built buses.

In My opinion, the best arguments for not having seat belts on school buses have been that a fire and emergency evacuation would be severely hampered by these belt. If you look at the pix of the fire of a Freightliner on this page you will see that in 3 minutes or less, tragedy would be in store for belt wearing panicking students.
An idea of an instant electronic floor release in a crash sensor is not a good idea either, in case the battery was disconnected in the crash. Even a manual release is bad in case that should fail to release every belt.
It's plain and simple knowledge that seat belts on school buses are a tragedy waiting to happen. As stated by previous drivers, the only things a bus is not safe against are a loaded tractor-trailer, and a train. Most other vehicles are no match for a school bus. The high back seats are the best protection for our children.
Our buses have had seat belts as standard equipment for 4 years now, and the students are used to them being there. They just put them on the floor or sit on them, none of them wearing them. I am glad they don't.
I have only had one instance of them being used as a weapon. I do feel they should be removed from the buses, and that the bus manufacturers should refuse to equip buses with them. The argument of a rollover accident is not a valid reason for belts either, since the body pressure on an occupied belt is greater than a single individual can get out of in an emergency. the risk of slightly greater injury in a rollover accident is worth not being trapped in a rollover with an ensuing fire.

Thanks for your time, and a place to speak out on this issue.

fritz, bus 107 Attica, NY. Laidlaw bus 907108.

I've been a schoolbus driver since 1966, never had an accident or injured child. I have seen horrific bus accidents, one in San Jose where the bus went over a guardrail and landed upside down. I don't know if seatbelts would have made a difference but certainly the higher seatbacks we have now could have saved some lives. I am now retired and living in Michigan where I also drove a schoolbus. We have a seatbelt law in this state so children are very accustomed to buckling up. I had kdg. kids ask me where the seatbelt is. If my bus were to roll, I would want the kids buckled in. On a side impact they could be thrown into the aisle or each other with great force. On the other hand, if they had to make a rapid exit, little hands are not that quick especially if they are bundled up in winter clothing, gloves etc. I think the law will be enacted and the drivers will have to adjust.

I have to say that I have never met such a group dedicated safety minded and concerned group of people as the Schoolbus driver. Pat yourselves on the back people, maybe someday the parents will remember you as someone who truly cared for their kids.

From: "joseph buccellato"

Subject: Seatbelts on buses issue...(9/24/00)

I drive for the Dearborn Public Schools in Dearborn, Michigan.
All of our buses have seat belts in them. The parents in this district demanded it so the school board gave in. All 90+ buses have them and only the special education students use them.
I never have any trouble with students fastening them together across the aisle or hitting each other with them. The students don't use them but the drivers do as punishment, "If you don't sit down you're are going to have to wear your seat belt."
I personally don't like them because they get in the way and I have to put them up at the end of the day. Also they get filthy during the winter from all the snow and water the kids track on the bus and let the seat belts lay in. I also agree that if you do have an emergency there is no way you'll get 60+ panicking students off the bus in a hurry.
I think it would save a lot of money for the school system if they stop putting belts on and just educated the parents about belts.

Remember be careful out there,
Ed Prentice

Looks like the majority don't like the seatbelts on buses...here here!
The LAST thing I want on my 90 pack crown are SEATBELTS!
My jr. hi. kids would be killing each other with them, tying themselves up, buckling em across the aisle...not to mention the elementary kids would too.

Schoolbuses are generally safe as can be. If they want to make them safer, builders should take a look at how Crown built their buses, all in one integrated body/chassis like a big ORT motorcoach, this would help make the bus withstand collisions better from the side, back, front, whatever. And the bus would last longer. Some of our Crowns have been rear ended pretty bad in the past & the bus driver wouldn't be sure if someone hit the bus they're so solid.
What I'm saying anyways, adding seatbelts would be a hassle in emergencies & vandalism, if they want to make them safer redesign them!
We got dual air brake, high seatsbacks, 20+ steel roll bars that make up the roof (26 roll bars on a 40' crown coach)....our buses are safe!
I rode our now retired 1973 Crowns with the low metal framed seats, single air system, and all that...NOT ONE TIME was there an emergency on the bus. few breakdowns...but no major fires, accidents, whatever.

Buslady
SoCal
SVUSD 25
'78 Crown Supercoach

Subject: seat belts...(6/3/00)

Hi My name is Chrysanne Henry I have driven a bus in northern Utah for 10 years,

We have been taught for many years about compartmentalization, and I feel it is the safest way to transport students, it just makes more sense than to take a chance on trying to unbuckle 88 students who are trapped in a bus. In talking with my supervisor I can tell you he has many misgivings about trying to buckle up that many students.

I have had mothers who refuse to send their children on my bus, given the fact that I don't have seat belts. I have tried to explain the facts but to no avail. I think the public needs to be more informed.As well as given the facts, so they can make informed decisions. I think too many people jump on the band wagon without the correct information.

Many of our politicians don't have children who ride busses. Do they really take the time to research the facts, or do they simply say and do the thing that will make their constituents happy.
The bottom line should be, lets make our nation's kids as safe as possible.

In the larger cities students usually don't ride school buses to school. They ride city buses or subways etc. Does anyone have any statistics on how many students are hurt or killed riding city buses or subways to school?

I know of school districts that allow students to stand on the bus while it is in motion, due to overcrowding. It will be interesting to see how they propose to "seatbelt" standing students.

Please send me your comments.

Seat belt related links

NHTSA Position Paper

The NEA's Seatbelt page

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

...(3/25/00)

Canadian seatbelt test

To see a major reason why seat belts don't belong on big buses - CLICK HERE

(2/8/01)

Click HERE to see the pictures of the burned bus Rex sent us.

Subject: Fire on a Frieghtliner Bus...(9/2/99)

Hello,
I wrote before explaining my OPPOSITION to seat belts. Well, Our Superintendent of Forest Hill Schools feels the same way.
About a week ago, one of our NEW Thomas-Frieghtliners had something go wrong under the hood. Within three minutes, the bus was in total FLAMES.
The smart thinking and training of our Bus driver prevented a major death scene.
The WHOLE Bus was completely in flames in under three THREE (3) MINUTES. Every seat on that bus burned to the frame, It was so hot, the glass melted.
Now you tell me that with those kindergarden kids on that bus STRAPPED in with seat belts, they would survive???
Because of Sue Baker, her calmness and training when she saw flames coming from under the front wheel well, those children are alive and well.
I have been taught to believe by the bus industry that these buses are safe from fire. I have at this time NO confidence in manufacture of a bus.
I was under the impression "Fire Retardent Seats/Material" Meant that when flames got to it, it would smolder or not burn. This bus went up like a bomb fire, from the front to the back of the bus, it was melted and gutted by fire.

The bus industry needs to stop and think what they are doing, what they say and how they present safety to the public.

We bus drivers carry the Future of this world everyday and we should have confidence that the vehicles we use will prevent death, not turn children into lap belt burn marshmellows.

I have seen death in all its ugly forms. I saw a baby when I was 12 (45 years ago) that was burned in a private plane that crashed in the fileds behind my sisters ranch. That baby was a charred marshmellow. So were the mother and farther and older sister. I never want to see that again driving a bus.

Thank you for reading this, If I can get a picture of the bus, I will scan it and send you a copy. As of today, the inspectors have no idea what caused the fire to start or spread as fast as it did.

Rex H. Slingsby, Bus Driver 91,
Forest Hill Public School.
Comments expressed are mine and not that of the School District.

Subject: Seatbelts...(4/10/00)

Hi Frank..
I do believe that seat belts on the school buses in New Jersey was nothing more than a nightmare and a money maker for the manufactureres of these buses and belts as well as the politicians who passed this ridiculous law..isn't that why the high back seats were put in the buses..its been my experience that seat belts have been nothing more than a toy for some age groups and in some cases has created very dangerous weapons and injury to other students upon their misuse..the school districts which use our buses do not hire bus monitors therefore its rather difficult to monitor the seat belts for 54 passengers and also drive that vehicle..seatbelt law just created one more headache for the New Jersey drivers of school buses.....remember riding in your small personal vehicle and a large school bus are two totally different experiences and one should not be compared with the other..also its been my experience that most of the students don't wear them anyway...what a waste of time and money!!!!!

Nina Bus, #38 New Jersey

Subject: Seat belts ...(11/14/99)

WHAT ARE THEY NUTS putting seat belts in Big Busses???
I drive a big bus here in PGH PA in the City These kids would be hitting each other with the seatbelts instead of wearing them...or better yet hitting the windows in the buses....My thing is if something would happen to that bus how are we suppose to get out 72 kids safely and quickly with using seatbelts. My bus is required to haul 72 kids....the seatsbelts are known to jam, stick, with kids sneaking to eat on vehicles a lot of times they spill things on the seats, so you know they are going to have sticky seatbelts....

Thanks Karen, State trainer
A J Myers & Sons PGH Division

Subject: Seat Belts and/or Airbags on a bus.....(9/19/99)

Hello Frank,
I just finished reading through your page on seat belts on buses and saw your question about airbags instead.
I know there are three states that have seat belts on their buses and it is up to the district as to the enforcement of them. I have a friend that drives up near Jay NY and he has told me that they way they enforce it is if the child doesnt wear the seat belt they dont ride the bus.
As to my feelings about seat belts on the bus....well there are some kids that would benifit from them but over all as others have stated there are many dangers to having them on a bus. Most of the accidents that I am aware of are not caused by kids not being in their seats. It's from trains and /or someone else hitting a bus and in these cases if the kids were in seat belts their lives wouldn't have been spared but rather most likely lost instead from the panic of trying to get it off and get out of the way.

I drive in northern IL and transport around 200 kids on my various routes each day and I know there is no way you can get 3 high schoolers to a seat and some grade schoolers are big enough that they can only sit 2 to a seat also.
As for the airbags....well those would be nice too but...where would they put them? in the backs of the seats?
If so then you run into the problem of the wonderful kids that like to make holes, cuts and take the foam padding out of them so the airbag would mostly be damaged and not work when needed.
Along with the fact that not all kids will just sit with their hands folded in their laps sitting properly in the seat.
My husband is a volunteer fireman and he has told me of cases where the persons nose or arm got broke when the airbag went off and I have heard about smaller children being suffocated by them.

It's such a hard call to make. I know the kids I tranport are intrusted to me by their parents to get them to and from school as safely as I can and I feel that the help of the parents, teachers, administrators and the community would help us alot more then seat belts or airbags.
We need these people to support and enforce the rules already in place for riding the buses and instead of just patting the hand and saying dont do that again follow through with the punishment that is suppose to take place.
One more note since my husband is also our head mechanic I hear about changes that are being talked about for buses and I know the state of IL is Talking about requiring car seats for children that are in the preschool/pre-K programs...so that would mean either putting in seat belts and car seats which would take up space for your regular routes OR the option of ordering the bus seats that already have the car seats built into them.

Phyllis #40
Illinois

(9/11/99)

I am a School Bus Mechanic and a past Bus driver.
The area I work in has a school bus belt policy we have had no major problems with them but we have had some problems we didnt expect.
Just this year we had to call the Fire Dept. and ambulance for a Jr High school student who got his finger caught in the hole in the seat belt end.
Also it is a hard to enforce rule to get the kids to wear them in the first place. If the student does not put it on who is to know?

I enjoyed reading the opinions of others. Keep up the good work and Drive Safe.

Ken AKA Busmech682@aol.com

Subject: Seat Belts...(8/9/99)

From my own experience in my personal truck ... when turned over ... dangling upside down .. strapped in my shoulder style seat belt...the latch would NOT release at all until pressure was relieved.
I had to one arm lift my daughter on the passenger side to get her where she could press the button and holding onto something to protect when the fall occured...thus she and I could get my belt to release.
UNDER PRESSURE it takes TWO functioning humans to escape.
Imagine the screaming, from the accident and then fear instilled when the belts would not release for them.

Helen Chance (HC)
7653 Lakeview Rd.
Statesboro, Ga. 30461

Check out Mrs. Chance's web site, SCHOOL BUS STUFF, on my School Bus Driver's Web Pages. She has lots of unique, fun, school bus clothing items for sale.

Frank, Bus #150

SEATBELTS...(7/24/99)

I do have 2 seatbelts to use for students that need them. I have had no problems in 9 years. Politicians have absolutely no idea what goes on in a school bus. We must make them understand how unsafe it would be to have belts on busses! ****This I agree 100% with.****
Thanks for hearing me out. Robert

Our system has mini busses that have seatbelts in them. I have used these busses for small group field trips with my preschoolers. They are required to wear seatbelts in these mini-busses because they are not built to the same safety standards as the big busses. The problem is that the high school students also use these busses (usually coaches) and they totally abuse the belts. I find them completely removed from the floor, buckles pulled off or broken.
If students will not use belts on a bus where it is required then how do we make them use them at all?

Thank you for a place for bus drivers to vent! This is great!

Carol in Alabama
Bus#4

Subject: Seat belts...(7/24/99)

On your page you posted..(7/10/99)

I know of school districts that allow students to stand on the bus while it is in motion, due to overcrowding. It will be interesting to see how they propose to "seatbelt" standing students.

How can any school district allow students to stand while the bus is moving? It is not only UNSAFE but against the law. We are not transporting farm workers we are transporting children. Be smart, Be safe.

From: Robert Thomas

Subject: Seat belts on School Buses.....(7/24/99)

Our system, Carrollton City Schools, Carrollton, Georgia has used seat belts for seven years and it seems to get better as each year goes by, I drive a pre-K route (4 year olds). It is a matter of teaching these people from the start. Most of these little people don't know what seats belts are to start with - but with the monitor teaching them, they learn quickly. They soon buckle the belts as soon as they sit down withought any instruction.

Not only are seat belts used with the 4 year olds, but all the Carrollton City School Buses have seat belts - both high school & middle school.
As the childred grow up, they continue to use them. This is a teaching process as is everything else in the school system.

Lawrence Kilgore
Bus 93-6

Subject: Seat Belts..(7/22/99)

I have driven for 9 years. In that period of time I have had a safe record. I strongly feel that seat belts are a waste of time.

Reasons are:

1. Who would enforce the use of them. Bus driver cannot check each seat while driving, only an aid could, double expense, (students still could un-buckle when aid is not near them).

2. Can you imagine the filth that would be encounted with three seat belts per seat. Students would not want them on due to spoiling clothes. Especially in Michigan, where we have snow and salt combined 4 months of the school year.

3. A seat belt is designed to restrain a person, not give on impact. Just imagine a bus laying on its side with students suspended from the seats. They cannot release the seat latch due to constant pressure on it. If a fire should break out, you would have burned bodies and death.

4. Remember, the bus driver is EXPENDIBLE. There would not be the happy bus driver to free the students. Most of the videos I have seen, the bus driver is hurt and unable to assist.

I practice what I preach. MY STUDENTS, from K-1 top K-12 do the fire drills themselves. I do not assist or help. I train each year all my students on how to evacuate, what to do, where to go, who to help. How to use the radio and location of first-aid box.

My student K-1 to K-5 know how to shut down the engine, use the radio and fire extinghuer. I have safety students (who volenteer) that see that everyone is off the bus and everyone is safe. They are trained to be there in my place. Just watch the Canadian bus crash video at 25mph. See the drivers location, that person is not getting up and walking away.

IF the evacuation Drill is 50 SECONDS or MORE, they DO it again and again till they are under 50 seconds. This is for all grades. No one will put on tombstone that I killed a bunch of kids. I care very much for my students of all ages. I want them to enjoy life and all it has to offer, good and bad.

Thank you for reading this.

REX H. SLINGSBY
"busdriver92@juno.com"

Subject: seat belts NO..(7/10/99)

My comments will be short. In our school district children ride public transportation to and from school. If they are safe without seat belts on public transportation, than it only stands to reason they should be as safe on a school bus.
I think the main reason they want them on a school bus, enforcement is possible for extra money for the state.

Musty31@aol.com

Subject: seat belts on busses....(5/16/99)

Frank,I have to disagree with the idea of putting seatbelts on busses.
I drive for a public preschool and I cannot imagine trying to get 35 to 65, 3 and 4 year olds out of seatbelts in an emergency, especially a fire.
A lot of them fall asleep on the way home, and my aide (which I am very thankful for) makes sure that sleepers sit by the window, sitting up so that they are safe in case of a sudden stop.
I do have 2 seatbelts to use for students that need them. I have had no problems in 9 years.
Politicians have absolutely no idea what goes on in a school bus. We must make them understand how unsafe it would be to have belts on busses!

Our system has mini busses that have seatbelts in them. I have used these busses for small group field trips with my preschoolers. They are required to wear seatbelts in these mini-busses because they are not built to the same safety standards as the big busses. The problem is that the high school students also use these busses (usually coaches) and they totally abuse the belts. I find them completely removed from the floor, buckles pulled off or broken.
If students will not use belts on a bus where it is required then how do we make them use them at all?

Thank you for a place for bus drivers to vent! This is great!

Carol in Alabama
Bus#4

Subject: Seat Belts(5/16/99)

California, as well as the nation, is in the middle of the seat belt debate.
Our state DOE was able to persuade Senator Gallegos to at least wait until the study being conducted by NHTSA is completed. It made no sense to push a law into existence without having all the facts before you. At the very least, the report from the study will tell us what type, if any, of restraint would best benefit our kids. Or perhaps the next generation of compartmentalization.

I know that we as drivers and school districts will follow whatever the state mandates, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. For those of you whose states have implemented regulations to have and use seat belts I have to wonder what happens to compartmentalization when seat belts are added?
It has been our back bone of a safety feature since it's inception.
As I reviewed accident after accident, I was once again impressed by the low injury rate in a school bus, because of compartmentalization.
The data and statistics used by the lobbyists are often misconstrued and inaccurate.
The majority of fatalities that occur within a school bus happen because of the seating position of the student in relation to the point of impact. In other words, they died because of where they were sitting, not because they didn't have seat belts. But the public doesn't know that.
We have an organization here, CASTO, which is launching a campaign to inform the public how safe a yellow school bus is. I'm am constantly amazed at how well constructed and designed our buses are.
In combination with excellent training, it's understandable how school buses are 172 times safer than the family car.
Over 4,000 children are killed each year in the family car!

The majority of fatalities that occur each year with school buses are in the loading/unloading zone, so where should our attention be?

As drivers we know what makes the yellow school bus safe; construction, design and training. Certainly if we were shown that a better way existed, we would jump on the band wagon.

Jett
Driver Instructor
Chula Vista, CA

Well, I read all the what if's, and silly possibilities, and I have this to say.
I have been driving a school bus for 20 years. Fifteen years ago when it came out that they would make seat belts mandatory on all school buses, I said the same thing that all the people that sent in these letters said. No way, kids would use them as weapons, what if, what if and what if! We now have seat belts on 85% of our buses, now they are talking about not letting a bus start, if one seat belt is not buckled. Give me a break!!
I have seat belts on my bus and I make the kids wear them. There have been 4 or five instances (district wide) where kids have hit other kids in the mouth with them, there have also been lives saved. Many lives. Now tell me, what is more important!

Dee
Rt. 343
Houston, Texas

I have had some experience on both sides of the question.
As a Schoolbus driver for the past ten years, and as a legislature for five years.
Reasons given for not having them on the bus are valid, logical and compelling to be sure. But folks,let me assure you that it takes only one irate parent pestering his or her congressmen on a daily basis to get some inane unenforceable, legislation enacted.
It is what's refereed to as political pressure. And it looks good on a candidates resume, believe it or not.
Politicians are given more credibility than schoolbus drivers.
That's unfair, but that's the way it is.

Gene in 16
Connecticut

Subject: seat belts(4/7/99)

I have been driving a school bus for 10 years now, and 7 of them my private company has elected to buy and maintain seatbelts on all their vehicles (although it is not mandatory here).
We have over a 100 - 66 passenger buses on the road at this time.
We can not make the students wear the seat belts, but they are there for those who want them (or parents who want them used).
The kids have gotten used to them being there and really don't pay any attention to them at all, although not very many of them actually use them.
I like the idea that they are there for those who do want them, but I do question if they would be any better than the cushioned high seats.
My kindergarten students are asked to wear them, but then, you know, their feet don't even touch the floor, they can slide off the seat if you look at them.
I think a big question would be who would be responsible for making them actually wear them ?

Joyce, Western New York

Well, Frank I'm sure you remember me.
(Is this my driving buddy from District 300, "Scarey" Sherry? Frank,Bus #150)

The kids that I drive would strangle one another if the seat belts were mandated in my 77 passenger.
I had a few seat belts put in for a pre school run I was doing. My elementary and middle school liked to hit one another with them. These belts were only in the front two seats!
I can't imagine what the students in the back of the bus would be doing. Although it may stop the pencil throwing for a while.
The seats in the bus are already cushioned to prevent injury.

My bus had been rear ended a few times while I was stopped making a left turn on a 4 lane highway.
Of course the car and the van couldn't see my big yellow bus's brake lights or turn signal (I was invisible). At 50 MPH they hit the rear, the only student that was injured was a high school girl who was sleeping in a seat. The boys in the back where the car was lodged were not hurt at all.
I think of myself' who flew into my steering wheel even though I was seat belted.
I believe this is just another insurance company scam for the government to believe it will be safer.
It would be safer if anyone who is out there driving would pay attention.

By the way Frank nice web page.

Sherry
Illinois

Subject: Seat belts

I don't think they are a good idea for two reasons.
First, in an emergency how do you help 65 students get out of their seat belts?
Secondly, they can be used as weapons.

Debbie 833
Jacksonville, FL

I drive in California. We have some of the most stringent policies in the nation.
Putting seat belts on the big buses is a stupid idea. Aside from the fact that the belts would be used as weapons, vandalized, become cleaning nightmares, what about the holes put in the floors to hold all the belts? Won't that weaken the floor and make it a hazard?
What about the fact that most of us drive not just pre-schoolers, but also high school football players?
The seat belt hasn't been made yet that can be adjusted easily, safely and swiftly to fit a 60 lb. kid to a 200 lb. kid!!
Also, what about fitting 3 to a seat? Will there be 3 seat belts? 2 seat belts?
If the belt becomes a weapon and 'Johnny' hits 'Susie' in the mouth breaking a tooth does this constitute a "School Bus Accident"?
Now I ask you, on the safest mode of transportation, why fix something that's not broken?

Linda - bus #223
California

The ONLY way any sort of passive restraint can be used on large busses is, if it involves a belt or belts across the collarbone and the belt(s) are not done individually for each student.
It would have to be a common restraint for the entire seat. This will be quite an engineering feat but may someday be possible.
The problem is, it still leaves the students in a precarious spot in trying to get free without assistance from someone.
Lap belts and compartmentalization DO NOT MIX !!
And then there are the enforcement issues, maintenance, behavioral problems etc. etc. etc.

Greg Larsen

Folks as I understand it, bus seating with high back seats are designed as individual crash compartments. If that true than wouldn't children of any size, wearing a lap only seat belt, be held in the seat at the waist, but would be thrown head and neck first into high back seat? I think to their death!
I think without that they would be thrown forward chest first into high back seat and survive.
To support this theory I ask you to check out why Ford Taurus was sued over deaths from people riding in the back seat and involved in accidents while being buckled in lap only B, they were thrown forward into seat, head and neck first and died of broken necks.
Ford then installed rear shoulder harnesses.
Without this over-the-shoulder harness in buses I believe you are sending our most precious cargo to their deaths.
I pray my information is incorrect,but it is certainly worth a look.

tommy 2-dogs TRKNAPPSR@ AOL.COM

Subject: Re: Seat Belts on Buses

First, I would like to say how much I have enjoyed your site. I stumbled on it quite by accident. Its nice to know where you can "voice" your opinion about school buses and someone understands.
I have been driving a school bus for 12 years now and I remember that we were thinking the same things when New Jersey decided to make it a law for all school buses manufactured after '94 to require seat belts.
Granted, this state only allows 54 passenger buses, but it really surprised us that it kind of worked. Our students are required to wear seat belts.
In the beginning, they resisted. Attaching them across the aisles, pretending, playing with them, etc. but when we would pull over and do "seat belt checks" any student not wearing them, was given a verbal warning, next was a write up, then phone calls to mom and dad, the last step was the principal.
It took a good four months before things finally straightened out. The worst time is the winter with all the heavy coats, gloves and Mittens. The little ones can be really slow.
Now the kids will tell us that we can't drive away yet because their belt is not on.
Even parents, because they know the buses have belts will attempt to stand by the window to watch little "Susie" buckle up.
We drive pre-school thru 12th grade and on the whole, I would say that 3/4 of them buckle up voluntarily. That's not to say that they like it. On occasion when they would get a bus without belts they would be clapping and cheering, then go home and tell mom there were no seat belts and moms would call up and complain.
Thanks for "listening" while I rambled.

Debbie from NJ

Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if a School Bus got into and accident, rolled, started on fire? The driver would be unconscious, and all of the children are in seat belts.
With the all of the extra weight on the belt it would not unbuckle easily, and it would be nearly impossible for every child to get off of that bus safely.
Without the drivers help cutting the straps of the belts, god forbid this ever happen, but more children would perish with seat belts than without.
Just one of the many examples of a possible accident outcomes.

Besides fair is fair, if it's safer on a School Bus, let's see them install seat belts on a city transit bus, where the passengers are allowed to stand, now how safe is that?

Brendan #182 Anoka, MN

I have been a school bus driver all total of 8 years. Our buses are not equipped with seat belts nor do I look forward to the day (if it comes) that it is mandated.
I know you hear of parents asking why we don't have them (obviously they're not living in the "real world" of school bus transportation) and don't have a clue.
By the same token, they are sometimes the same parents that let their children ride in their own cars without them!
It's a well known fact that children riding on today's buses are over 2,000 times safer (even without belts) than in their own parents vehicles!
I wish I could put that fact up on top of my bus in neon for everyone to see.

General consensus is that the belts are used as weapons and not for the purpose of which they were designed. Not to mention the vandalism problem of them being cut, etc.

I drive mostly primary age students (K4 through 4th grade), and God forbid we're involved in an accident where (hypothetically) we have seat belts, who's to say how my 65 or so children would rescue themselves from that situation effectively, even if I was able to assist?

Come on, get real!
I challenge anyone who shouts "why don't our school buses have seat belts?" To ride their local school bus just one day...That will certainly change their mind.

JuJu
Bus# 503-7395
SC

Subject: School Bus Seat Belts

How do I explain to the mother of a young girl that I had to put my hands in her lap to help her with her seat belt?
What do you think the School Dept. would say?
How long would I last as a Driver?

I have driven buses with seat belts, and can tell you that seat belts are dangerous. Kids use them as weapons, and hit other kids with them. Drivers can't sweep floors and belts become dirty.

If school bus regulators want to do something for kids and drivers I suggest the rocket science of designing and testing a waste basket built into the bus design.
For 20 years of bus driving I have been driving ever newer and better buses but, still no waste basket.
What is the matter with these brain dead bus designers?
Don't even get me started on seat cover material that rips and tears.

Pete Yes
Boothbay Maine
Bus #3

Subject: Seat Belts on buses

No Way! Who's bright idea was this????
Obviously nobody who has been on a school bus lately!!! They will become weapons, hazards, and major headaches.....

You would definitely have to have a monitor on board. And, in addition to everyone else's comments, what about when you pre-trip the bus. If a seat belt on board is inoperable, does that mean nobody can sit in that seat????

Lisa, Bus 36
Virginia

Subject: Seat Belts

In 1987 I received a new 64 passenger bus with seat belts. We were not requiring our riders to wear them, but they were available if they wanted to use them.
I had one rider wear it in the 2 years that I had that bus.
The riders would use the buckle end as a weapon, small children wrapped the strap around their necks and would attach them across the aisles to trip other students.
I also had concerns that if the bus were to be hit and turned on its side, if the riders could get out on their own.

Buses that are used commercially do not have seat belts as well as the public bus services.
If they are going to mandate that school buses have seat belts than they are going to have to include those buses also.
Children also ride in these type of vehicles.

There was a school bus hit in Maryland last year by a tractor- trailer. The driver was killed who was wearing his seat belt. His two grandchildren in the seat behind him were thrown out of their seats. If those children had had a seat belt on they would have also died in that accident.

School buses are made to be safe inside. The new 78 passenger buses that our county has received in the last two years have seat belts in the first six seats.
These are primarily for pre-schoolers or special education students that may require some restraint within the bus environment.

I have always felt that our buses are safe without the aid of seat belts and have been confident letting my own children and now my grandchildren ride on our buses.
Keep the seat belts in the smaller vehicles where they belong.

Cathy Schultz
Training Instructor
Fairfax County Public School
Virginia

Here are my comments regarding this Issue. I drive for the Vestal Central School District in upstate NY near Binghamton NY.
NYS mandates that all new buses purchased must be equipped with seat belts.
However, they leave it up to each school district as to whether or not to mandate their use.
Our school district (school board) opts that students are not required to wear them unless the parents demand it.

As far as the state DOT inspections are concerned, it is required by DOT that the seat belts have to be available for use at all times. Therefore, we are required to maintain them in a ready condition.

As for my and other drivers comments and opinions.
They are difficult to maintain as they fall on the floor and get dirty and all twisted up as the students have to sit on them.
In addition they create a trip safety hazard in two ways.
First as the students make their way down the isles and get their feet caught in them.
Secondly, the students connect them across the aisles to intentionally trip their peers in the dark.
In addition, how would you force students to wear them??
Your job is to drive safely and maintain discipline. You cannot police every student on the bus continually.
My opinion for what it's worth is that they create an additional safety hazard which would far out weigh the benefits.
Mandating students to wear them is unenforceable without a monitor or bus attendant on the bus to police it.

Chuck - Gingerbread Bus

Dear Frank

No to seat belts.
The children will use them as weapons on each other.
Also WHO will be responsible for all 72 students to have their seat belt on ?????
Not all School Districts can afford bus monitors. I have enough on my back roads with crazy drivers.
I have been ice skating with my bus the past 2 weeks. We have to keep our fingers crossed.

I believe seat belts should be used on big or small buses.
It would keep students in their seats and out of the aisles.
They would be prevented from being thrown about the bus in an accident.
I also believe seat belts would set a serious tone to prevent over activeness students on school buses. Furthermore we tell our children to wear them in a car ,why not on school buses ?

Donna Bus# 129
N.Y.