subject=Cameras vs. GPS

In Hunterdon County NJ. as of 2-14-02 there is a lot of talk about putting GPS units in our buses.
I think this is a good thing. But we have a BAD problem with people running through the Red lights of the bus.
As of now we do not have any cameras and are left to fight the fight the old way. And more offten than not the driver walk away.
I know it all comes down to money. I think the money would be better spent on cameras then GPS units.
Cameras to stop red light runners would be in the better interest of the students.

Richard G Smith Jr.
Hunterdon County, New Jersey
bus nunber # 61, Wheelchair Bus

Street Talk with Larry Brinton

December 14, 2000

How would you like to have a job as the driver of a Metro School bus?

It may not be what you think, says a veteran Metro school bus driver.

Certainly some of the young passengers act a lot different than people who ride Nashville's MTA buses. Just recently in Hopkinsville, Kentucky, a 5-year-old was killed when a school bus overturned. The driver says the accident occurred when a student grabbed her arm, causing the bus swerve and eventually overturn as she tried to straighten it out.

It hasn't been that long ago that a Metro student wanted to check out the fingernails of a Metro School bus driver while she was driving on her route. Luckily there was no accident, but there could have been. There are some 450 school buses in Nashville and 500 or so regular and temporary drivers.

More recently, a Metro School bus driver was threatened by a rather large student. Firecrackers were exploded in another school bus here. That driver was fired. Another driver with more than 20 years of experience says the job is a nightmare. It includes fighting among students, kids running up and down the aisle and, of course, a lot of vulgarity.

It's reported to be so bad, that one Metro School bus driver keeps a tape recorder at her side for her own protection to to record threats from students. Considering the pay for new drivers, says one driver, the job is not an easy ride.
I'm Larry Brinton and that's Street Talk. ©2000 NewsChannel 5.com

Subject: Child Alert System...(10/7/00)

Hi! We have a "Child Alert" system installed in our buses and the driver has to walk to the back of the bus to push a button before turning off the ignition.
Failure to do so will result in your horn honking about 5 minutes later. Therefore if your horn starts to honk, then you did not check the bus for sleeping children.
I am a Laidlaw driver.

Pam, Bus #10

subject:Strikes...(6/3/00)

Strikes are a dirty word among most employers. However at times it is the only course of action left when school district administration has the mind set that you're only worth a minimal salary.

But driving bus has changed through the years. We have more worries, a stricter set of standards, tougher kids and more complicated issues. AND we alone have to deal with all the variables. There's no adult down the hall, or in our 'room' to help us cope with situations or make decisions. Do all of this while giving a safe ride.

We had a two day strike in our school district. it was very sucessful, opened alot of eyes, and gave us more respect and driver unity. It was a good thing. Hopefully better wages will draw better applicants to the job. Our kids deserve the best!!

Cindy Stevens, Bus #821
Bemidji, Minnesota

SUBJECT: 4 TIER SYSTEM...(5/23/00)

MY SCHOOL BOARD HAS VOTED TO GO TO A (4) TIER SYSTEM TO SAVE MONEY IN THE COMING SCHOOL YEAR.
THE STATE OF MO.ONLY PAYS FOR THE MILES THAT ARE PUT ON THE BUS WHEN DRIVING THE BUS.
THEY WANT TO PICK UP THE ELEM.KIDS FIRST;TAKE THEM TO ONE SCHOOL; THEN PICK UP SECOND SET OF ELEM.KIDS,TAKE THEM TO SECOND SCHOOL.THEN GO GET THE MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS,TAKE THEM TO THE MIDDLE SCHOOL. LAST RUN GO GET THE HIGH SCHOOLERS AND TAKE THEM TO SCHOOL.
IN AFTERNOON REVERSE EVERYTHING BACK.
THIS WAY THE MILEAGE IS DOUBLED AND THE STATE PAYS MORE MONEY.BUT THE BUSES RUN ONLY HALF FULL AND THEY ONLY NEED 11 DRIVERS. BUT NO COVERAGE FOR FIELD TRIPS IN AFTERNOON.
KIDS WILL HAVE TO BE AT THEIR STOP AT 6:30AM TO BE PICKED UP FOR SCHOOL.

TERRY BROOKMAN,Route #7

AFFTON MO.

Terry;

How many drivers did you have before this?
The new system sounds like it may cut down on overcrowding on the bus.

Frank, Bus #150

(4/22/00)

Dear Frank,
The following letter (The names have been removed) has been sent to our school board.
We feel that the time has come for school bus drivers everywhere to be paid for the job we do,
and to be backed up by the administration on discipline matters. What do you think?

Mark Blackstone

From: Transportation Team

Subject: The following list of problems and recommendations have been drawn up, discussed,
and agreed upon by the XYZ Transportation Team for review and consideration by the XYZ School Board.

The list will be introduced by a delegation of drivers at the next school board meeting.

Pay scale inadequate by today's economic standards.
Salary gap between certified and non-certified employees grows wider each year.
Driver's responsibility and liability increased over years.
School bus driver requirements and CDL very stringent (no longer a part time, any body can drive job, but
professional bus drivers).
Economical distress and hardships for families.
Drivers working 8 to 30 years make approximately 60 cents an hour more than a new driver.
Income too low for drivers to ever retire on.

Example: Pat XXXXX retired in 1998 at the age of 59, after 25 year working for XYZ School District.
Pat's monthly retirement check is $469, which adds up to $5,628 annually.
Now at 61 years she has to work at McDonalds, just to pay the bills.

Using $12,000 as a base pay, drivers will receive an additional $500 for each year of service.
The drivers would be rewarded for years of service for the district, and driver's salary will be
sufficient at retirement time.
The yearly cost of living raise would still be figured on the driver's base pay.

Example:
$12,000 + 5 years ($2,500) = $ 14,500
$12,000 + 10years ($5,000) = $17,000
$12,000 + 20years ($10,000) = $22,000
$12,000 + 25years ($12.500) = $24,500
$12,000 + 30years ($15,000) = $27,000

Discipline needs to be standardized district wide. Discipline not the same from building to
building.
Punishment inconsistent.
Driver's authority not respected.
Effective discipline must start early.
A district wide discipline policy for school buses will be put into place at the beginning of the
2000-2001 school year.
Parents will be notified by mail of this procedure, and students will be reminded at an assembly,
at the beginning of the school year.
The school bus drivers will agree to only write up students for severe or repeated behavior.
The driver will handle all minor problems on the bus.
Students will be given 1 written warning, before conduct report given.
Copies of the warning should be filed with the building principals and the bus garage.
A copy should be sent home with a follow up phone call to verify.
After the warning, student receiving the first conduct report will be removed from the bus for
one day. The second report equals two days off bus. Third conduct report of students requires
one week off bus.
All grades and buildings will be the same.
Bus driver authority on bus. Drivers are responsible and in charge of all passengers while on bus.
Teachers, coaches, and other school employees will follow the rules of the bus, and aid drivers to
maintain discipline.
All staff should be advised of school bus rules and procedures by memo, and reminded at first
in-service meeting.

Professional School Bus Drivers

Subject=Drivers Union...(9/9/99)

I have 30 yrs exp., grease monkey to asst. director. Drivers need respect,rights, fair pay,recognized arm patch telling public I transport your children.
Blacklist for inept,uncaring, those that reflect bad on professional drivers.
Drivers should be recognized as the professional they are. Better training in student mang., more control over riders, on site physcologist to help drivers/monitors to understand student behaviour.
Buses should be for the students who want an education-stop all special rights for disruptive students, i.e. serve the good student first-the disruptive last.
Help me to bring bus drivers all across nation up to the standard they have earned with their dedication--Reply, I am open to all suggestions.

email=...Jimmy Moore

name=Jimmy Moore
state=Texas
area=Tyler, east Texas
bus nunber=utility driver

Subject: Respect...(7/21/99)

Great Web page. I drive in Northeast Ohio.
I agree we do need respect from our school Administration and parents. We have trouble when we issue bus dicipline not being followed through by the principals,then it becomes a game between the students of how far they can go before being suspended. Does anyone have any suggestions and are there districts out there wilh zero tolerance?

Also I would like to know when any of you go to those refresher courses are you compensated for your time?

Yvonne - #16

Yvonne - We are paid for a minimum of 2 hours, anytime we are required to show up for anything, including the annual refresher course.
Frank, Bus #150

...(7/18/99)
I will reiterate what I have said repeatedly---We, as drivers, need:

1. More support on discipline problems on the bus. That would be very cost effective. It wouldn't cost a thing for the administrators and parents to insist on good, safe bus behavior.

2. We need another person, a monitor on these buses, so that we can concentrate on driving and not on what is happening inside the bus.

3. More training. It is almost impossible for a regular ed driver, who has no training in special needs to maintain control on a bus full of children (some of whom will be special needs). Do you know what it is like to look into your mirror and see a child having a seizure? Especially when you don't know what to do or that even that this child was seizure prone? And this is happening while you are trying to maneuver a 42 ft vehicle down a street! We need to be considered a full part of the educational team in all areas.

4. Less privatization of our buses. Often these drivers are not as well trained or well screened as well as non-privatized drivers.

5. Federal laws passed and strictly enforced regarding the number of children that can be safely transported on a school bus. At present, there are no such laws, only the manufacturer's suggested amount of students, which is capacity plus 20 per cent. This means that a 72 passenger bus can haul as many as 86 children. The law should be no more than two high or middle students per seat and no more than 3 elementary students per seat.

6. District enforcement of the no pass while loading/unloading laws. These people who do so should go to jail.

Debbie Moore
The Gwinnett Bus Drivers Association

Subject: Texas...(7/10/99)

Frank,
I didnt notice any Texas bus drivers talking on ur page concerning bus laws.

In Texas or I should say for Pearland, Texas, we are required to STOP at rail road, even if we're empty and our emgergency lights must be on!...Two buses CAN NOT cross at the same time, even if on opposite sides of the road. You can lose your job for both these reasons.
We do have crossing arms that come out when our red lights come on....We are not required to get out of the bus and walk children across, but our Transportantion Director does like for us to Wave the children across once the coast is clear, this means the child must stop before he is in front of the bus, and look at us, to wave them across, I am one of the one's who follows this rule, but not all driver's do. The child must walk in front of the bus, NEVER behind it.
There are rules posted inside the bus such as no standing,eating,hands out the window, profanity...etc...but on my bus, I come home and I type out my own rules that I expect the students to follow such as no rough housing, no jumping from seat to seat, I just add somethings that happen, that are left out. I post them at the back of the bus over the EMGERGENCY exit sign...and I print them large enought that they can be read...I post them also on the sides of the bus...like maybe seat 8 and then opposite side around seat 14 and at the front...I keep them for maybe 1 mo. until they know me and how I work...I put them all over so they don't have a reason to say they didnt see them. I do read them out loud for those who cant read correctly...and end it with, U have the control to make this bus run smoothly and get you home safer and faster. I will not tolerate any broken rules, Please do not put me in a spot where Im forced to follow the rules that Ive been given by my director, because I will do write ups and call parents if I need to. and I sign it off.

Mrs. V
bus #630

Subject: Bus driving..(6/14/99)

Hi Frank,
Great page! I've spent the last hour or so just checking out your page and the different laws concerning bus drivers.
Here in Eastern North Carolina were lucky if we can get our buses to go the legal speed limit of 45 mph.
As to radios and air conditioning, what luxuries you'll have. Must be nice. We start school the 3rd. of August when you can bet the average temp on a school bus at 3 o'clock in the afternoon will be at least 100 to 110 degrees.
And as to getting off the bus to cross the kids. If we take the keys out of the ignition the lights all go out.
In our school district and there are seven in this county, we have 31 buses. They range from 1984 to 1998 (only one 98) most are between 88 and 94 and most have hundred thousand miles or more on them. The average route is at least 60 miles a day. They want to make them last 20 years or 200,000 miles before they're replaced.
We are guaranteed four hours a day and if you drive less than that you have to work somewhere in the school to make up to the four hours.
And like most places we don't get anywhere near the pay for the responsibility we have. I've been driving for over 8 years and make only $8.61 and hour. New drivers start at $7.20. We do get paid for holidays and leave days.
We also have an incentive plan in effect. For each quarter that you have perfect attendance you get a $50 of which they tax the mess out of. Of the fifty, I get $34.34 and the only excused absence is death in the immediate family or court for bus business.
We have a very high rate of bus stop sign violations. So many in fact that our county was given a grant from the Federal Government to equip a bus with a video camera on the stop sign. It records from the instant the stop sign is activated and has been a great help in the conviction rate. Up until the camera the driver was required to get the tag number (rear tag only state) and a description of the driver, time of day, road condition, direction of travel, description of the vehicle and witness. Like we have time to get all that when we have kids crossing the street and are trying to make sure they don't get hit.
We have a bus drivers association and have for several years. The assoc. has been a great help in getting fans for the buses, A/C for the special needs buses. And with several raises. Our biggest problem is getting drivers to join. They think that it's ok to let the bus assoc. fight their battles without their support cause whatever they succeed in attaining for the drivers all drivers will benefit not just the assoc. members. What we can't get across is that only in numbers will we be successful. The powers that be are more likely to listen to us if we can tell them that of our 250 drivers 200 are members but with only 70 out of 250 we don't have the power we need to succeed.
We are required to attend 4 hours of safety meetings a year to keep our CDL.
One of our request for kids who have been suspended off the bus a second time is for the parent to be required to ride the bus before the child is allowed back on. Than just maybe the parent will realized just what the driver has to deal with day in and day out.
Thanks for letting me tell you about driving in NC.
Oh yea we also have tourist that we have to look out for headed to the beach and about a thousand military vehicles who are student drivers from Camp LeJeune.
Here's to a safe school year.

Anyone wants to can contact me at:

Janets e-mail

Thanks,
Janet

Subject: School Bus in Canada!...(6/1/99)

Hi Frank, I was thinking all this time I have been reading your web site that I would have something nice to tell you to introduce myself. Well I don't have something nice.
Please go to Ottawa Citizen online newspaper and look up school bus accident, May 25, 1999.
School Bus rolled several times. Another just outside of Toronto, Try... looking for the Toronto sun paper... a kindergarten child dropped her paper and went to get it beside the bus and she ended under the back tire as the driver drove away!
These incidents are raising a lot of questions about seatbelts and parental responsibility... that kindergarten parent doesn't come to the door to collect her child.. What are the rules where you live?
Parents of kindergarten children are required to come to the bus door to collect their children and no one under the age of 16 can take a child off a bus. I just thought you would like to know of the incidents maybe make some awareness..
Another question!!! you can try and search at the ottawacitizen for another story also as a matter of fact. drivers have left children on the bus after there run. The first one.. Jan 99 he was park behind a mall after his kindergarten run. he did not go to the back of his bus to check for children. He pulled up beside another bus and chatted in that bus for about 30 minutes when he looked up and saw her wake up. He was fired. Another.... March 99 Driver parked his bus infront of his house and never check for sleeping children after his kindergarten run. the child was missing for 2 hours, he woke up (4yearsold) got off the bus and walked about 2 blocks to a house to tell them he is lost. That driver was fired to. I know that all these bad things are not good to hear about but the are happening here.
Now I will tell you.. they happened at our company and they were splashed all over the news yet they are happening at other companies but because they are not policy to fire someone for that they feel they don't need to broadcast it.!

I know you wanted to have your site worldwide for every driver.
You can put my name and email address and if anyone is looking for information in Canada, Ontario...
I live in Nepean,, Ottawa!...e-mail for Frances
About school buses I would be happy to help.
I am --- bus number 9138
Thanks, Frances

Hi Frank I don't know what you would like to file this under, but I think it is something all of the drivers should know.
I don't how many drivers from Minnesota read, or respond to your web site, but if they are reading this they already know the problem.
On Wed. Jan. 13 a school bus driver from Champlin, Mn. was arrested at the local middle school while waiting to start his afternoon route.
Apparently earlier in the day one of the students on this drivers bus had witnessed a transaction of cash from a student for a bag of marijuana from the bus driver. The student who witnessed this event reported the transaction to the principal who then proceeded to contact the police.
When this driver arrived at the school for the afternoon route he left his bus to go inside the school to talk with a secretary in the office, when he came back to his bus he had quite an army of police officers searching his bus and waiting for him.
This driver was arrested on the spot, and was officially charged on Fri. Jan. 15.
The student he was selling to was only in 6th grade, can you believe it?
On Thurs. Jan. 14 this was the lead story on all of the local Mpls./St.P. news casts.
I drive for the bus company that this jerk drove for, and needless to say "One bad apple spoils the bunch."
It's amazing the bus company has been in existence for over 30 years with a perfect record, and an excellent reputation, then something like this comes along and ruins that reputation, and make all bus drivers look like the bad guys.

If anyone has comments about this I would like to hear from you.
Brendan's Email Address Brendan #182 Anoka, MN

RESPECT; what's that?
Not only do we NOT get any respect from employers, co- workers, parents,and students ------what about the TEACHERS?
This seems to be a BIG problem were I work . We have a policy we must follow but the teachers think they can disregard our policy.
Such as they put a student on our bus , at this time the student is now the responsibility of the bus driver. If the teacher or teachers aid feel they need this student back they do not see any problems in coming to your bus and wanting you to hand this student over. I for one have a big problem with this. AS far as i am concerned once that child is on my bus they are going home to mom and dad, were I will drop them safe and sound !!!
IF THESE TEACHERS AND THEIR AIDS CONTINUE TO THINK IT IS ALRIGHT TO DISREGARD OUR POLICY.......WHAT WILL THEY DO WHEN A CHILD WINDS UP MISSING? !!!
I pity the person who has miss placed or lost a child over disregarding our policy.

KIM #102 N.Y.

Subject: comments
In Ontario, Canada
we always use lights and stop arm at all of our stops. This is the law.
We also have crossing arms on front of bumper and all of our students are not to move across the road until driver says (WAVES) it is safe to cross EG: all traffic is stopped BOTH ways.

Thank you....Marion Sanders

In California it is required that all school bus drivers receive a minimum of 10 hours of in service training a year.
Some just get the bare minimum, and others take advantage of the excellent workshops provided by different groups.
School bus roadeos are an excellent way to improve driving skills. Large workshops with a lot of people involved
give the opportunity for speakers and topics that would not otherwise be feasible to do.

For attendance, some districts here give rewards for good attendance. Others are lucky and have drivers who care
about their job and the extra stress they put on their fellow drivers when they don't come to work and their aren't
enough drivers to cover them.
As for keeping the drivers happy - how do you do that if they aren't happy with themselves? They must like themselves
and make a decision to get along while at work whether they truly like each other or not.
They must be professional and treat each other with respect when at work.
...Cheryll from Texas

Student Behavior

Hello Frank!
I enjoyed your portion of the web page as I surfed the net form more info on school bus companies and drivers.
I work for a union (Amalgamated Transit Union) whose members include many school bus drivers.
If you or any one you know is interested in forming a Local union send me an
Email note...

Javier Perez Thanks Again.

"Failure is not an option" -- it comes bundled with your M$ software

Watson said "I see millions and millions of stars".

Holmes: "And what does that tell you?"

Watson: "Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Theologically, it tells me that God is great and that we are small and insignificant. Meteorological, it tells me that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you?"

Holmes: "Somebody stole our tent".

"Woman without her man is nothing"

on the blackboard, and directed the students to punctuate it correctly.

The men wrote: "Woman, without her man, is nothing"
The woman wrote: "Woman, without her, man is nothing"

WARNING TO ALL PARENTS !!!!!
DON'T let your children date school bus drivers. They only want one thing

.............................................More sleep ?????????????????.

Question - If a man speaks in the middle of the forest and no woman hears him, is he still wrong?

Comment - An insomniac, agnostic, dyslexic was up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

#10 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse pre-trips the family car, daily.

#9 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse reaches for the microphone to speak to you.

#8 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse waves, with a smile, to all crossing guards even when sitting in the back of a patrol car.

#7 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse has an emergency evacuation drill, twice a year, in the family car.

#6 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse parks the car in the bus loading zone, during P.T.A. meetings.

#5 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse has you sign off the pre-trip book before you drive his pickup.

#4 You're probably married to a special education bus driver if your spouse only waits two minutes for you to get out to the car.

#3 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse writes up her children for bad behavior, in the family wagon.

#2 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse asks for a route sheet, to take you shopping.

#1 You're probably married to a school bus driver if your spouse stops at all railroad crossings with the flashers on, in the family van. ............................anonymous